DDHH son ahora – Entrevista a Bella Friszman de APDH: “Todos los días hay violaciones a los derechos humanos”

por Giuliana Sordo
Con la intención de desmitificar la idea de que los derechos humanos pertenecen al pasado y la memoria es algo que debería quedar en el olvido, el ciclo “Los derechos humanos son ahora” intenta recuperar testimonios, crónicas o entrevistas que indaguen su importancia y vigencia en la realidad actual.

La Asamblea Permanente por los Derechos Humanos (APDH), a diferencia de muchos organismos de la temática, se originó unos meses antes de la última dictadura cívico-militar en la Argentina. Una de sus copresidentas actuales, Bella Friszman, que participa desde 1977 luego del secuestro y desaparición de su hija y por quién pasaron la mayoría de los informes del “Nunca Más”, invita a reflexionar sobre la historia de la organización, los vaivenes de la democracia y la importancia de estos derechos en la actualidad en la siguiente entrevista.


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— ¿Porque sigue siendo importante luchar hoy por los derechos humanos?

— El tema es que no es hoy, es siempre, no es algo que se agote. Nosotros en la organización, empezamos con algunos motivos especiales históricamente, pero hoy en día hay que seguir luchando porque no está todo resuelto. Todos los días hay violaciones a los derechos humanos, y tenemos que seguir trabajando por ellos porque son básicos y esenciales para todo ser humano.

— La institución surgió unos meses antes del golpe militar de 1976, a diferencia de muchos otros organismos de DDHH que se fundaron durante o después de la dictadura, ¿cómo fueron sus comienzos en ese contexto y que intentaban lograr?

— En ese momento la intención era convocar gente de toda clase de ideas y el tema fundamental que los unía era la violencia que sucedía. La triple A andaba por toda la República Argentina haciendo desastres y la vida no tenía ningún valor, no había ningún resguardo para la vida de las personas. Entonces con la convocatoria de luchar contra esa violencia, se fueron integrando un montón de personas. Finalmente, en diciembre de 1975 decidieron tomar el nombre de Asamblea Permanente, pero ya hacía un año que estaban intentando agruparse, sin tener todavía una forma concreta, había gente de todos los partidos políticos, de todas las religiones, periodistas, abogados, maestros, aquellos cuyo quehacer diario tenía que ver con lo social. Era un grupo humano muy interesante.

— ¿Vos te sumaste más tarde?

— Sí, yo entré en abril de 1977 cuando la institución ya estaba formada y trabajando. Entré en ese momento porque sucedió el secuestro y desaparición de mi hija menor.

En mi casa se hablaba siempre de política, así que yo sabía en qué estaban mis hijos, militaban en la Juventud Peronista, era algo que podía ocurrir. Pero esos riesgos a veces hay que correrlos por las ideas.

— ¿Cuál fue el rol de la APDH durante la dictadura?

— La organización se fundó con la idea de que se trabajara con la defensa de todos los derechos humanos. Hoy abarcamos todos esos derechos, y en aquel momento también, pero las desapariciones eran tantas que, por ejemplo, cuando yo comencé a participar de las actividades, el primer día me dijeron: “¿Sabés escribir a máquina?”, como respondí que sí, me sentaron en una mesa a hacer listas de personas desaparecidas. Ese era el material con el que se trabajaba, sumado a los datos que se podían obtener de los familiares. Íbamos a las reuniones de abogados para ver qué podíamos hacer con eso y cómo se podía reclamar a un estado que era de facto. La actividad durante la dictadura se centró en eso. Nosotros sabíamos que estábamos siempre en peligro.

— ¿Cómo fue tu experiencia de esos años entre la militancia y la vida personal?

Mi casa era una casa en la que se hablaba siempre de política, así que yo sabía en qué estaban mis hijos, militaban en la Juventud Peronista, era algo que podía ocurrir. No era algo que me cayó del cielo como una especie de maldición, era algo que era posible. Pero esos riesgos a veces hay que correrlos por las ideas. Más allá de eso, puedo decir que a mí me pareció fantástico poder integrarme con un grupo humano como el que encontré acá en la Asamblea, porque lo que yo aprendí aquí dentro es fabuloso, al estar en contacto con gente que venía con mucha experiencia y con las voluntades al servicio de cosas buenas. Eso fue muy estimulante, a pesar del dolor de la pérdida. Además de compartir el dolor con la gente que venía constantemente a denunciar desapariciones. Así que uno se va a acostumbrando a enfrentar ese tipo de cosas, no tiene otro remedio, pero es mejor eso que no hacer nada.

La educación es una de las grandes preocupaciones desde siempre en APDH. Creemos que todos deben instruirse en ese tema tan rico y básico, conseguimos que en cada aula hubiese una Declaración Universal (de los Derechos Humanos) para que fuera material de estudio.

— En la vuelta a la democracia, ¿colaboraron con el informe de la CONADEP (Comisión Nacional sobre la Desaparición de Personas) conocido como el “Nunca Más”?

— Sí, acá está todo el archivo de la CONADEP. Todos los testimonios, muchos de ellos pasaron por mis manos, fueron a la comisión y después volvieron. Ahora, se está trabajando en la digitalización de la información, poner estos archivos a disposición de una forma más moderna.

— También para que perduren en el tiempo, ¿no?

— Sí, igual muchos de estos archivos son considerados por la UNESCO de interés histórico y están también en entidades que se ocupan del resguardo de archivos porque es un material histórico que sería una pena que se pierda.

— ¿Qué otro tipo de proyectos realizaron en democracia?

— La Asamblea está formada en secretarías que abarcan distintos tipos de derechos humanos (políticos, sociales, culturales). La educación es una de las grandes preocupaciones desde siempre en APDH. Preparamos distintos materiales para las escuelas en todos los niveles, creemos que todos deben instruirse en ese tema tan rico y básico, conseguimos que en cada aula hubiese una Declaración Universal (de los DDHH) para que fuera material de estudio, y más adelante conseguimos las cátedras de derechos humanos, la inclusión del tema en la currículas. En todo eso se trabajó mucho y se sigue trabajando.

Lo importante de la justicia es justamente sancionar a los crímenes que se cometieron, decidir sobre la vida de las personas es una cosa bastante cruel y criminal, y eso tiene que ser sancionado. No puede perdonarse, menos aún cuando nadie pide perdón.

— Pensando lo que sucede hoy respecto a los juicios de lesa humanidad, ¿cómo creen que debe ser el proceso de memoria respecto a estos delitos?

— La memoria es algo que debe considerarse siempre como importante, no venimos de la nada sino de una historia, y esa historia tiene que ser lo más veraz. Sabemos que eso es bastante difícil de conseguir, pero tenemos que esforzarnos por contar las cosas como ocurrieron, y todo ser humano debe saberlo. Es importante saber de dónde viene uno, qué cosas ocurrieron, porque hoy hay consecuencias de ello. Entonces si las sufrimos, tenemos que saber por qué, cuáles son los problemas que condujeron a esta situación y tratar de mejorarlo para el futuro. Tenemos que encontrar la forma de enmendar lo que está mal, eso es una tarea permanente que no se termina. Lo importante de la justicia es justamente sancionar a los crímenes que se cometieron, porque fueron crímenes, decidir sobre la vida de las personas es una cosa bastante cruel y criminal, y eso tiene que ser sancionado. No puede perdonarse, menos aún cuando nadie pide perdón.

— ¿Cuál es su participación en los juicios?

— Tenemos una participación muy activa. Contamos con delegaciones en todo el país, entonces de acuerdo a las necesidades de cada región, hay abogados que se ocupan del tema. En lo personal, participé de los juicios en la causa de la Ex Esma porque mi hija estuvo desaparecida allí.

— Hasta ahora se estuvieron juzgando todos los militares involucrados en los delitos, ¿qué opinás de las participaciones de civiles y ese juzgamiento que está bastante trabado?

— Es lo más difícil de conseguir. No hay voluntad por parte del poder judicial de hacer justicia en ese terreno. Indudablemente, los crímenes los cometieron los militares, las cúpulas fueron los que organizaron ese tipo de masacre pero además estaban los ideólogos y aquellos que tenían proyectos que había que instalar de este modo: silenciando protestas de gente que pensara de otra manera.

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— ¿Qué opinas de que persistan, después de tantos años continuos de democracia, prácticas como la violencia institucional y el gatillo fácil?

— Persisten porque se organizó un aparato que no se terminó, no se destruyó. Las fuerzas de seguridad estaban al servicio de perseguir a los propios conciudadanos y esa gente siguió existiendo. Es la “mano de obra desocupada” de la dictadura y perduran hasta nuestros días, pensando de la misma manera. Es bastante difícil enfrentarse con eso

— En relación a todo lo anterior, al trabajar el concepto de derechos humanos de forma tan amplia, ¿creen que es una forma de remarcar su importancia hoy?

— Sí, absolutamente. Si bien comenzamos por el terrorismo de estado y lo que éste produjo, también hay víctimas por otras razones: por una situación económica deficiente, porque no tienen trabajo digno, relacionadas a la temática de género o los pueblos originarios, ni hablar de los talleres clandestinos, por ejemplo. Hay mucho para hacer en materia de derechos humanos y todo eso es parte del quehacer nuestro de todos los días.

Las fuerzas de seguridad (en la dictadura) estaban al servicio de perseguir a los propios conciudadanos y esa gente siguió existiendo. Es la “mano de obra desocupada” de la dictadura y perduran hasta nuestros días, pensando de la misma manera.

— Referido a las otras temáticas, ¿qué otras actividades realizan como organización?

— Lo que más nos interesa es la difusión, es muy difícil enfrentar las violaciones a estos derechos, pero para enfrentarlas hay que conocerlas. Invitamos a la gente que se especializa en estos temas a formar parte y producimos publicaciones que tienen una rápida difusión. Trabajamos en la defensa de tipo jurídico defendiendo causas generalmente colectivas. También participamos y estamos muy atentos a todo lo que es legislación en derechos humanos, apoyamos y contribuimos a reclamar al poder legislativo cuando hace falta que se trate o impulse una ley que es necesaria. Así que trabajo no falta.

— Pensando en las elecciones de octubre, ¿cómo creen que los resultados impactarán en materia de derechos humanos?

— Eso sí que no lo sabemos, es imposible (risas). Lo que podemos hacer es apoyar lo que creemos es más afín con lo que hacemos, pero aquí hay gente de toda clase de pensamientos, así que constantemente tenemos discusiones sobre política. Además, la relación con el estado es siempre problemática, hay bastante dificultad para llegar a un consenso.

— ¿Creen que con ciertos candidatos se corre mayor riesgo?

— Obviamente. Todo esto que se hace, se puede hacer porque existe la posibilidad de hacerlo. Vivimos todas las situaciones. En la época de Alfonsín se logró la CONADEP, discutida, pero fue un trabajo que se llevó adelante. Cuando Menem estuvo en el poder, fue un momento de mucha tranquilidad porque era imposible hacer nada, y sin embargo se hacían algunas cosas. Estamos dispuestos a enfrentar lo que venga y apoyar lo que consideramos que es bueno para esta causa.

La idea es tener siempre esa columna vertebral que son los derechos humanos que hay que defender a toda costa y no hay que permitir que se vulneren.

— La organización cumple en diciembre 40 años, reflexionando con toda esa historia por detrás, ¿por qué es importante trabajar por la memoria y la lucha por los derechos humanos?

— Es un tema que no tiene final, los problemas se van generando y hay que resolverlos. La idea es tener siempre esa columna vertebral que son esos derechos básicos que hay que defender a toda costa y no hay que permitir que se vulneren. El hecho de trabajar con la Declaración Universal nos convence cada vez más de que estos derechos están tan interrelacionados unos con otros que si falta uno se malogran todos los demás, entonces es todo eso lo que hay que defender y, a la vez, es todo lo que un ser humano necesita para tener una vida digna.

Asamblea Permanente por los Derechos Humanos
Sitio web: http://www.apdh.org.ar/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/apdh.argentina
Twitter: https://twitter.com/apdhargentina


Otras ediciones de “Los derechos humanos son ahora”:
Entrevista a CORREPI: “Las fuerzas de seguridad no tienen otra función que la de reprimir”
Entrevista a Giselle Tepper de HIJOS: “Juzgar hoy a los genocidas es reparar un daño que se le ha hecho a todo el pueblo”
Entrevista a Delia Bisutti: “Si vuelve a ganar el neoliberalismo a ultranza que representa Macri, se frenan todas las políticas de derechos humanos”
Entrevista a Martín Malamud de Huella Digital: “Un cambio profundo pasa por la defensa irrestricta y amplia de los derechos humanos”

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